When it’s okay to let someone die

This topic was discussed a while back as a Blog Azeroth shared topic. As a healer, my first reaction was “It’s never okay to let someone die.”  However, over the last little while that opinion has been changing. I’ve had more bad pugs in the last two weeks of leveling my baby priest than I’ve had in 2 years of randoms on my various level 80s.

At level 80, 95% of my LFD experiences (with a couple notable exceptions) are great. Quick, with people who are either pleasant or silent. In the low level randoms at least half of them have one obnoxious jerk.

Last night I joined an SM library run. As I zoned in, I saw the group was mostly dead and had cleared almost to the boss. As soon as everyone was alive and buffed up, the rogue whispers me and tells me the tank has a habit of ignoring the healers mana and pulling whole rooms at a time. He had raged at the last healer when he died and the healer had left. Oh goody. The tank, true to the description given by the rogue, proceeds to pull a whole room of mostly caster adds, which attack everyone. I spam heal my little heart out, using up most of my mana bar in the process.

Once the mobs were dead, I announce “drinking,” sit down and see the tank charge into the next room. I watch his health drop to zero as I enjoy my delicious sweet nectar. For some reason this makes Mr. tank angry.

Now, I admit I’m not completely innocent in this. After all the bad pugs I’ve been in lately and hearing that the tank had raged at the last healer, I was spoiling for a fight. You want to rage at me for something that was your fault? Bring it on.

Tank: Jesus Christ healer are you really that shit?
Rogue: The healer was drinking.
Me: I said I was drinking.
Me: Which part did you not understand? The “drink” part?
Tank: You’re terrible, I only pulled one room and you had half mana.
Me: 700/2400 is not half. I see you’re no better at math than you are at English

Then he left.

As a healer I take pride in keeping everyone alive and making a good impression on people I group with. When people die on my watch I feel guilty/inadequate/bad. However, if people die because they’re morons and then have the gall to give me shit for it, it turns my frown upside down. I could watch those people die all day.

Do you think it’s okay to let jerks die? Also, does anyone have any insight into why low level randoms are so rife with jerks?

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28 Responses to When it’s okay to let someone die

  1. Would have done the same thing!

  2. In my admittedly limited experience of low level LFG, all tanks are jerks. They either can not hold aggro for the life of them, yet blame the dpsers even though said dpsers are counting to ten before doing anything after each pull or attempt to clear the whole instance in around five minutes by pulling everything that moves. Both are annoying and explain why my experience of low level instancing is fairly limited.

  3. Absolutely, totally YES.

    I have the same problems in lowbie randoms that I've occasionally experienced in higher level dungeons.

    1. The new players learn better by level 80
    2. The older players probably figure that being half a second more patient will save them insane repair bills [which add up at level 80].
    3. The ones that don't learn get driven out pre-80?

    I'm leveling a lowbie priest myself and I'm more than happy to let stupid people die.

    Heck, I was in a battleground doing the gnerd rage, and had a hunter ragging [cussing, rude language etc] on me because I was "too low level" [despite keeping those in the flag room defending up quite well]. I replied and told him that I wouldn't be healing him if he was going to be rude. He said "Well you're not going to need to heal me anyway so it doesn't matter".

    Cue five minutes later, he comes back to defend because he keeps getting one shot out running around [darn rogues]. A group of horde invades the flag room and true to my word, I kept everyone else up. We finished the fight with us all at full and him with a sliver of health. "HEAL!" he demands in raid chat.

    "I said I wasn't going to," I replied. [cue mass lols from the bg].

    A rogue pops out of stealth and one shots him as he sits to eat. He laughs and says that he saw the rogue but chose not to defend me. I keep everyone including self up from the high level rogue. We all had a good laugh.

    The thing that gets me is the fury warriors and resto druid tanks above level 40ish… One guy told me that it was his right to queue as tank in a dps spec because "Blizz gave you OP heals, ffs do your job and shut up and heal".

    I pretty much stopped healing at that point. He was squishy as could be and I had been pouring heals into him and his pally friend. They ran way ahead… and the boss died as they did, I left party, ignored both. My ignore list is becoming quite long and quite tank filled.

    • I think your reasoning is sound, so I'm always shocked to discover one of these terrible, mean players is in heirloom gear. They should know better!

      How do people think that swearing at you is going to make you want to heal them? ugh.

    • I love these people so much. Seriously. I tell them that they're not getting heals and still they yell HEAL ME FFS in party chat. I made a rogue leave FoS after he sat at 5% HP for 3 pulls… he realized that I meant business and I wasn't going to heal him at the boss either.
      (He had been throwing insults around since I joined the group – dungeon in progress – and he got even angrier when I said he should be more polite.)

  4. I would've done the same thing. Let them die without any remorse. I am proud when I manage to make a jerk quit… doing my part in cleaning Azeroth's dungeons of assholes :)

  5. Absolutely yes.

    I leveled among other characters a Holy Priest myself and like you I also really enjoyed letting people die that pull when they're not tanking, pull when I'm oom or don't buff even when I politely ask for them.

    The key to breaking those people is often to find ways to make the dungeon go your (and hopefully everyone elses too) way instead of theirs. Often this comes down to letting people die since Blizzard makes it so hard for us to kick even AFK'ers.

    • What really bothers me is that it’s extremely difficult to kick someone because “you cannot kick during or shortly after combat”, but it’s completely fine for people to drop group themselves in the middle of combat.

  6. Absolutely you were justified. I have a hard time letting people die who need to, but that guy was really egregious and deserved it.

    Think of it as evolution in action… if he learns, he will improve, if not, he will lose too much money on repairs and stop tanking.

    • I hope he learns, but since I was the second healer he had done that to in 10 minutes, I'm not so sure. I'll hope he stops tanking and I never run into him again.

  7. Morons and jerks get the post-it-note over their grid frame. :D

  8. Fakeemailaddress

    I've gone from 40 to 77 on a disc priest using the dungeon finder exclusively. I've had a lot of fun with mostly good experiences. I've only had to make the following comment twice: "I chose to heal so I do everything I can to keep the tank alive no matter how bad they are. However, I draw the line at jerks."

    • I think you've been lucky, but I'll hold out hope that it gets better after 40. Dual-specs could make a difference.

  9. Heals for Hire

    I'm not in a group to do charity work. If it becomes clear that somebody isn't interested in working with me, I have no problem in slacking on healing them. Work with me and I'm happy to heal you. Work for yourself and so will I.

  10. While I've pretty much put tanking on the shelf (at least serious tanking) it somehow hurts my tanking pride when I hear tanks act like jerks. Checking your healer's mana is like Tanking 101. Sometimes, if I'm uncertain I'll even ask them if they want to sit down to drink. Better safe than sorry (what can I say, I hate corpse running :P).

    Maybe I should give a low level a try again, I have an 80 priest, but I keep wanting to try the low level experience again. But I don't really have the time, and I'm planning to try a druid come Cataclysm (I had a level 71, deleted it and started over, it's now 29.. but I think I will re-start again in Cata as a worgen). Maybe I'll be a healer instead of a tank for once when leveling! Whatever I choose to be though, I plan to not be a jerk. And I hope a lot of other "good" players are rolling new alts too so that it's not all jerks we meet.

    • There are a lot of things I would consider Tanking 101. There are also a lot of people who have clearly failed that course. I see some awful things, like tanks charging into the first group of mobs after zoning into an instance without waiting for buffs or even checking to make sure that everyone else has zoned in as well.

      I plan to level a new alt in Cata with a bunch of my friends. I'm really looking forward to that. If they misbehave I can go to their house and smack them :P

  11. Hah! I'm glad the story had a happy ending :)

    I would have done the same thing. Also if you'd have charged in there with him, while on very little mana, the rest of the group would probably have felt obliged to follow, and it would have been a wipe. So, in serious terms, it is acceptable to let someone when trying to save them from their own idiocy would have damaged the rest of the group. It's like a healer hypocratic oath :)

    From a less politically correct standpoint, my personal maxim is "it's acceptable to let someone die if they're a dick to you" and the tank was a complete dick. Putting up with his bullshit would only have made life difficult for other healers down the line, I'm not saying this would have taught him a lesson but it was still hugely satisfying :)

    • Unfortunately, their idiocy did damage the rest of the group. One of the dps followed, and then ran back to everyone else when the tank died. I really feel that even if I had followed the tank and tried to keep him up, my 700 mana wouldn't have done it, and the outcome would have been very much the same. This way at least I got to prove a point (and tell-off the jerk).

  12. I think a lot of people have been completely ruined by LK heroics, and have no concept of how the holy triangle of tank-healer-dps actually works. They see full t10 tanks pulling whole rooms while the healer /dances and think "that looks fun, I'll roll a tank." they don't realize that when you don't massively outgear content you can't play that way. The insecurity of a new role also makes for defensiveness and it's always easier to blame the "Noob-ass shit healer" than learn from your mistakes. In lowbie instances healer threat, mana, tank threat generation, dps output, and limited spell/skill options all have to be taken into account, and you have to adjust on the fly by pulling fewer mobs and stopping more often. The difficulty curve for tanking is much steeper than it is for the other roles – lower gear often coincides with less experience to make tanking correctly much more difficult than, say, learning to DPS in a team-oriented manner. Tl;dr – new tanks: be humble, be careful, pay attention to your team! If you don't they'll make you pay :)

    • Yes, overgearing dungeons has made people lazy. Even having people with heirloom gear in the lower-level ones has made people think they are invincible.

      That is good advice for new tanks.

  13. TyphoonAndrew

    Let anyone who is rude, does not pay attention, or afk burn/die. Let those who go on follow not even be rezzed when i run them through a fire.

    The lower runs are poor because they're full of the same people in the higher ones; players who have forgotten what it is like to be new or polite. Let them burn too.

    • A little politeness goes a long way. I wish that letting the jerks die would scare them away for good.

  14. i am exactly like you, if ppl die on my watch, i feel like as if i am a bad healer.

    but i have learn to relax a little bit and even let a few tanks and dpses died deliberately because they are louches.

    and i had a convo like you with a tank 2 weeks back as a priest healer (we were in razor fen down? the one with the spider gauntlet). he just ignore my mana and say i am weak as well. i just stop healing him, he refuse to tank, the paly dps took over and we just keep on trucking and he left cause the other 4 of us dont care :)

    oh few days ago, on my druid, as a favour to my friend, i queue random with him, we got HOR, the tank talked to sylvanas then hide inside the dungeon. we were at the little nook and wondering where the tank is. and managed to survive til 1st boss before wiping.
    after that he came out from hiding and said “hahaha i love watching ppl die in here” and left party.

    like for real? there’s ppl like that out there?