Everything is a Hunter Weapon

I’m having a disagreement with one of my guildmates at the moment. We’re fast approaching our first 25-man Blood Queen kill and he brought up loot priority on Blood Fall. He believes that feral druids should have priority on this (and all other staves/polearms) and hunters should come second (he’s a feral tank, I’m a MM hunter). The argument is that while a polearm is just a stat stick for a hunter, it provides a much bigger benefit to a feral bear or kitty. To which I reply “evertyhing is a hunter weapon” (no, that’s not really my argument).

Our guild doesn’t use loot priorities, per se. We have simple rules like healers don’t get hit gear over casters (yes, we have had to spell this out for people on occasion), but for the most part we let our points system speak for itself and do not dictate loot.

I think hunters and druids should have equal access to 2H weapons. Although technically it is just a stat stick, it’s still a lot of stats we’re talking about, and potentially a significant dps boost for a hunter.

What do you think? Who should get priority on 2H weapons?

For the record, I’m in no way interested in Blood Fall. Damn Blizzard for putting in two haste polearms before the Lich King (I don’t expect to see that one anytime soon).

19 responses to “Everything is a Hunter Weapon

  1. I would say it should go to whomever gets the biggest upgrade from it, thus the biggest benefit to the raid's damage or healing output. But I don't raid so maybe I'm missing some nuance of raid loot distribution.

    • Loot systems are so much mroe complex than they need to be. The problem is that you need 1 method with set rules to make sure everything is fair. If you want to give it to the person who it will be the biggest upgrade for, you pretty much need to have a loot council. It's very hard to combine a point system with a system that rewards those who would get the best use out of it.

      Plus, it's very hard to do a direct comparison of a DPS hunter to a tanking druid as far as tangible benefits go.

  2. If a rogue is allowed to roll on a ranged weapon along with hunters, then a hunter should be allowed to do the same to druids. In my guild, raiding mains can jump the queue over an off-set, alt, or bench-warmer, but as long as our raiding main rogues let the hunters get the ranged weapons first, we let the raiding main druids get their sticks before us πŸ™‚

    • That ranged weapon argument messes everything up πŸ˜›

      I see a bit of a difference between the two arguments though. As far as stats go, a ranged weapon is the piece of equipment that gives the smallest upgrade to a rogue or a warrior. Going from a 245 bow to a 264 one will give them a handful of extra AP, maybe a few extra points of crit or haste. However, for a hunter, going from a 245 polearm to a 264 one provides a lot of extra AP and stats.

      A rogue taking a ranged weapon over a hunter would be taking away the hunters best upgrade slot in order to get their worst upgrade slot. For a hunter on the other hand, a 2H weapon is one of their best upgrade slots.

      I'm not sure I'm explaining this very well. Does it make sense?

      • I think I get it- you're comparing the total DPS increase instead of the slot from where we get it. That is a better, more general approach to the logic. Of course, points systems are supposed to ignore actual DPS increase statistics and assume that if it's not much of an upgrade, people are willing to spend less points on it.

  3. As a MM hunter, you don't want that staff. No ArPen, and haste is just blehhh… For you Survival offspec if you happen to play Surv, you will take it though. Kitties love that staff.
    If you want weapons, as MM, you take the gunship axe twice, it's loaded with ArPen.

    Actually, even if this staff is a big upgrade, let the kitty have it because he will use it longer than you, who will want to switsh to the axes as soon as you got them.

    But when the ArPen staff will drop from Arthas (I'm sure you'll get him one day), make sure to take it, because you let them have the Lanathel staff and stayed with your old weapon long enough…
    It's a MM BiS, take it. Or a least, ask for it… You won't change it until hardmode Arthas (10 or 25)

    And tell your lootmaster that weapons are stat sticks for kitties too : their damages are standardized and do not depend on the weapon characteristics.

    • I said kitty but the same applies for bears.

    • Yes, I said at the bottom of the post that I'm not interested in the staff. However, we do have survival hunters in the raid, and I think they should be able bid on it if they choose.

      I keep arguing that weapons are stat sticks for kitties and bears too, but it hasn't really got me anywhere.

      I don't want to concede that druids should get priority on 2H weapons, because as you also said, the one from Arthas is BiS and I'm not willing to be second priority on that when it's the only weapon I'm interested in.

  4. Noodleguitar

    If you assume that Bears should get priority on 2-handed polearms, then you could say that "everything is a hunter weapon" but for none of those you have priority.

    We have several choices as far as upgrades go. Firstly there are 1-handed Axes, Daggers and Swords (oops, I nearly added maces). These should be Rogue priority, simply because they gain benefit from higher damage (average or top/minimum) and different speeds where Hunters don't at all. If the rogues old weapon's DPS / speed is the same, then both Hunter and Rogue gain only the stats so that weapon should have shared priority.

    An other choice would be Polearms and Staves (with agility), which would have Druids and Warriors as priority (maybe Deathknights too if they can use them). For Druids this doesn't make sense, as Nefernet proved Polearms and Staves are also stat sticks for Druids. In my opinion Hunters and Warriors should have equal priority on Polearms since Warriors have Strength Weapons to chose from too, which are often better.

    The last choice is for 2-handed Axes and Swords. These would have Warriors, Paladins and Death Knights as priority. Here too I feel the priority should be shared with Hunters, since these weapons also have strength-versions for the other classes.

    As far as ranged weapons go I feel Hunters should only have priority if the DPS of the upgrade is higher than their current ranged. If it's the same, then both Rogues, Warriors and Hunters gain only the stats.

    So when someone says Druids should have priority on 2-handers, he basically says Hunters can only get their weapons other than ranged as a form of off-spec.

    • True enough. It's not really fair that hunters don't get equal priority on any non-ranged weapons.

  5. It is easy there are 2 drops distand land staff and the bloodfall polearm I am sure you will only be raiding with a only a couple of feral druids max then get it for minimum dkp soon
    Most pallies and dks tend to go for the strength weapons
    I kinda grabbed the axe becuase it was better dps on the spreadsheet vs 2 x scourgborne war axes but i let the druids get it first.

    to be fair the hunter itemisation is kinda cool in ICC oh I would save that dkp for the ranger general polearm from lich king .. lol who ever heard of a ranger general druid πŸ˜€

    • Yeah, the LK polearm is the one I'm looking for, just don't know how long it will take before we start killing Lich King.

      I wouldn't take either of the haste 2-handers from the 25man.

  6. Bri if your trying to decide the better upgrade your looking at a loot council. You better be very sure you know exactly what is a upgrade as well or better then the people involved and trust me with hit caps.expertise caps, armor pen,haste and crit that can be very involved,

    Open to all outside outright stupidity like healers taking hit items and casters taking mp5.

    • I like the idea of loot council, but it does seem like it would be very difficult to use it properly.

      I like DKP systems.

  7. Deepfiedegg

    I have just read your goals and then this post. One of your goals says "Get ArP capped". As a MM hunter I tell you hands off of this staff. How do you plan to get ArP capped when giving up over 100ArP on you melee slot? Get Hersir's Greatspear from Blood Princes 10, it is better than ANYTHING before you get to kill LK and loot his ArP juicy 2handers.

  8. I'm the guildie that disagrees with the Jasyla. πŸ™‚

    It's true that a hunter does get a good boost from a weapon. Weapons have always played a major role for any class in the game. They have the most stats and are highly desirable.

    However, there are things that people don't really grasp about druids. First of all, Druids are built to feed off stats. Druids get the most benefit to dodge via agility. They also get the most out of each point of stam.

    Secondly, a druid tank relies on their weapon for fully half (yes half) of their total AP. This directly translates into threat and our ap damage shield to mitigate hits, which is desperately needed as we don't have a shield.

    All in all, in our guild typically focuses in on what item provides the biggest bonus to what class for terms of priority. You won't see the hunter rolling on rogue daggers or enhancement shaman one handers, but you will see them on polearms and staves.

    It's not exactly consistent. πŸ™‚